Hmm

[eve11]

NOTE: There are mild spoilers in here from a few two-sentence summaries of the final two episodes that have been floating around in DW Magazine and as released by the BBC.

Amy and the Doctor went to visit Van Gogh in early June, 1890, so the story says. Van Gogh killed himself at the end of July, 1890, so it was indeed not only "less than a year" before he committed suicide but less than two months. Still, he is painting Wheat Field With Crows at the beginning of the episode and we clearly see evidence of something shambling through the field, disturbing the crows.

Question is, is it artistic license? Because scholars appear to agree that while not his last painting, "Wheat Field with Crows" was actually painted in July of 1890, which would have been a month after the Doctor and Amy visited Van Gogh. Is this a foreshadowing? Is there something else lurking in the wheat fields? We also know, for example that "The Doctor's friends unite to send him a terrible warning" in the final two episodes, and from the DWM blurb that in the finale "A Van Gogh painting is ferried across thousands of years." So is it "Wheat Field with Crows"? Timey-wimey-ness, indeed...

PS: If you know for certain because you've clicked on more spoilers than I have (which, um, yeah, the above are ALL I KNOW about the finale), don't send me links or anything, but if you want to speculate spoiler-free in the comments, go ahead ;)

In other news, I did quite like that episode a lot. And am glad. Off to watch again. Further comments to come.

Comments

[tripoli.livejournal.com]

Ooooooh. I don't know if you'll count this as a spoiler, since it's paraphrasing an interview with the writer talking about 5x10 and doesn't reference the finale directly, but I'll gray it out: I totally forgot about this till you just mentioned it, but the guy said the episode had what would seem like a huge plot hole to people who knew their art history. So, unspoiled though I am, I'd say good catch :-D

[eve11]

heh, the evidence mounts... I think we have a clue. I wonder if they will insinuate that Van Gogh's suicide may have been something other than what it appeared. Mabye Amy and the Doctor made more of a difference than they imagined, but something else caused Van Gogh to apparently shoot himself in a wheat field...

[tripoli.livejournal.com]

I...yeah. I dunno. On the one hand, the dude is incredibly dead, he's not gonna care, and maybe it would be a good story. On the other hand, this writer seemed to deeply, deeply care about how he portrayed Van Gogh, and to recognize that depression is fucking terrifying and kills people and it doesn't always make sense to the people around them. I'm not sure how I'd feel about mucking with somebody's historical suicide either way; I'm also not sure how this episode would play out if it turns out that the DW version of Van Gogh was murdered by some time thing. But a clue, I think, definitely.

[eve11]

Yeah, treating it that way would not sit well with me either. It is certainly not true to life in the way that depression affects people, and it would rather cheapen the emotional impact of the episode. Then again, we're not dealing with RT-I'll bring back Rose for as long as I want to-D, so there is some hope they won't go that route.

There's an SFX spoiler: 10 There’s a major story element that some will decry as a massive plot hole and others will embrace on a metaphorical level

Would that reference the timeline of the painting? And if so, seems like SFX decided it was placed for metaphorical purposes. Of course, other films have placed that painting later, I guess, saying it was his last, so what's placing it a little earlier, right? Then again, SFX might not have full information either. Hm.

[tripoli.livejournal.com]

Whoops, actually, that's the spoiler I was trying to paraphrase, which I guess didn't come from the writer after all. Sorry, sorry, my bad. If it was just SFX having their say, then I'm stumped.

They might also just mean Vincent picking up on Amy having a maybe-sort-of-possibly having the Lost Somebody vibe. Makes no sense going by the letter of the plot, but big on the metaphorical warm-fuzzies.

[eve11]

Well, I'm fine with it either way, I think. It might be a clue as to later on, or it might not. In particular, in light of the tiny blurb about a Van Gogh painting featuring in the last two eps, there might still be something to it.

[tripoli.livejournal.com]

That would at least be more interesting than, eh, the dedication to Amy on the sunflowers letting her remember it happened or whatever. Do you remember if this is a 12 or 13 episode season?

[eve11]

13. There are 3 episodes left: The Lodger (possibly named "Don't go up the Stairs") and the two-part finale.

[tripoli.livejournal.com]

Cheers. Well, I guess we'll find out soon, then.

[jenlev.livejournal.com]

Wow, very Timey Wimey. And I loved this episode.

Must be brief as we're having weather heareabouts...the kind where one turns laptops off. ;)

[eve11]

Batteries, woman! Where are your priorities! I must discuss intriguing timey-wimeyness of the episode! :D

[jenlev.livejournal.com]

Heee! I've got one eye on the sky, another on my laptop screen.

So...Timey Wimey: I think the issue of time being re-written is fascinating. The fact that some things change, others not so much and the way both Amy and the Doctor react to that is very well portrayed.

So wonderful how the sunflowers were for Amy. And the look on her face was perfect, as if she felt more real and present in her own life during that moment. At the same time the way The Doctor processed what she was feeling was lovely and edged.

[eve11]

I liked how they subtly dealt with the Doctor's own feelings of grief or remorse in this ep too, for what happened to Rory.

[jenlev.livejournal.com]

Yes...not overplayed, just present and real. And sadness for them all I think.

[bewarethespork.livejournal.com]

Hi! Here from who_daily and just wanted to say, that's a really interesting idea and I'll definitely be keeping it in mind when I hunt down as many spoilers as possible read other series speculation in the coming week. Thanks for sharing. :)

[eve11]

lol, I am trying really really really really hard not to get myself spoiled for the finale. I will most likely not be able to avoid watching the Next Time trailer but I'm going to try and NOT click on any clips they release, even. Good luck on your spoiler hunting though! And I'm glad I gave you some food for thought. :D