The Day of the Doctor

[eve11]

It took two or three viewings for me to catch everything, but here are some thoughts.

I thought that it would be a continuation of the Name of the Doctor; but I guess that they got back out of the Doctor's time stream okay? With no ill consequences? That threw me. I thought the whole special might be inside Eleven's time stream.

The whole backdrop of the abandoned shed in the middle of nowhere, and the moment, I thought was so well done. I really loved that scene. That something so huge and horrifying is started from a simple place. "Why is there never a big, red button?" was when I realized John Hurt's Doctor was still the Doctor in all the ways that counted.

I thought Billie Piper and John Hurt were absolutely fantastic in their scenes together. "This interface is hot!" "Well I do my best." And there are quite a few kind of recycling themes and tropes in this story (Ten Oncoming Storm-ing to the rabbit reminds me of Eleven's response to the footballers when they mention annihilating the other team, the three hands on the button evokes Ten and Donna with the Pyroviles, the science-y tech extras remind me of the guy who liked Quartermass in the Planet of the Dead, the Zygons-hiding-as-statues was very reminiscent of the Angels in the Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone), but I really liked the idea of a weapon of mass destruction so advanced and powerful that it develops a conscience. That seemed new to me, and I thought its actions, as a strange form of life and power, were well and convincingly done.

The idea that he walks miles and miles away from the TARDIS because he doesn't want her to see or know what he's doing, is kind of heart-breaking.

It does also get a bit wacky after that. I don't know if it was just that I wasn't used to it, but Ten seemed a teensy bit off. Maybe it was the setting; he was already on his 'joyride' run from death at this point and was being a bit more indulgent. The gratuitous shot of Elizabeth's chest as he fed her grapes was a liiiiiittle over the top for me. But "the horse!" was fun, as was "I'm going to be king."

Eleven jumping into the vortex and meeting Ten was fun, though. Enough with the sonic screwdriver jokes! But "I'm not judging you" was perfectly delivered. I also thought Hurt's old school cantankery and complaining was pretty hilarious. "Am I going through a mid-life crisis?" and "Why are you pointing your screwdrivers like that? They're scientific instruments, not water pistols!" I admit, I LOL-ed.

So then Clara plays the witch for no reason, really, and I think this is when Kate gets taken over by the Zygon (Oh no wait, that was earlier, when she was on the phone). And then the boys get locked up in the Tower of London.

Same software, different device. "Same software, different face," and Rose's smile. It never actually meant anything to the plot, except in the metaphorical sense. But it was a wonderful little vignette and the best way to end that scene. I like how this story is really and truly from the War Doctor's POV that way. "It's history to them, it's already happened."

Oh, oh, on second viewing I realized it was Clara's prior visit to the Black Archive... that they memory wiped her for! Good grief, UNIT! Not cool! At first viewing I thought that it was just that Kate was messing up the timelines and Clara hadn't visited yet.

I am overly distracted by Elizabeth's eyebrows when she is explaining the plan. I think normal people don't move their eyebrows that much when they speak? But anyway, all of the zygons are just letting her go on with saying she's not their commander... and then they stop for a wedding? So is it that they figured they couldn't take on the Zygons in the 1500s? Um, why not just wait for the Zygons to all translate themselves into the pictures, then load the pictures onto the Doctor's TARDIS for safe keeping? Unless it was because of foreknowledge already that the undergallery existed. Or if it's just because Ten wanted to run away from being married. Or heck, this was also three guys who didn't bother to check to see if the door was unlocked, what makes us think they'll figure out the best way to defeat picture-translating Zygons?

Someone mentioned this messes up Elizabeth's continuity, as why would she entrust the undergallery to the Doctor's care if she was later ready to shoot arrows at him in The Shakespeare Code? But I think that Elizabeth wrote her letter and made her undergallery very soon after the wedding... Ten did say "I'll be right back". And maybe a few weeks/months/years passed by while he abandoned her, and she rightly figured out he was being a jerk, though also rightly figured that he was the only one who could stop the Zygons once they broke out, and didn't feel like writing another letter calling him a horse's ass (or a Zygon's sucker, as the case may be).

Nothing much came of inhaler-scientist-fangirl's inhaler thing, except that we know she knew she was a human, and the other one then was a Zygon in the vault (too many vaults in this episode!). But the whole Zygon invasion didn't really mean much did it? Except what is actually harder to realize, and subtler than it should be, is that the orchestrating of the peace between Zygons and humans, stopping them from making the terrible choice that is being thrust upon him, is what impresses the War Doctor about his future selves. It's a difficult task to have him take the piss out of them for comedic effect but at the same time be affected by them to the point that he is ready to bring on the Moment and let his future happen, let himself be the lesser man who lights the fire--or at least he thinks he is ready.

And yeah, he is so lost, staring at that button, and the TARDIS-es both come to his rescue, and the projections of the people on Gallifrey and Eleven asking, "Who am I then, what do I do?" and the absolute and utter joy that the War Doctor has in realizing that there is another way. I loved how it came together with the mirror of saving Gallifrey like the Time Lord paintings were saved. And I thought that was all well played. It gave them hope, and it was another way, and that is what the show is about, the triumph of intellect and romance over brute force and cynicism :)

How much of the interface was the interface and how much was the Bad Wolf? Because I don't think the interface on its own could un-lock a time-locked event and let the three doctors come together?

I don't have much of a problem reconciling Gallifrey secreted away with the End of Time continuity. Gallifrey's past is time locked; that doesn't change if at the end of the war it is secreted away into a limbo. Now, the point is that Gallifrey has a future as well. Gallifrey's history is fixed and unchanging, but inaccessible to time travelers. Its future, now, is wide open.

As soon as Clara said her "by the way" at the end, I knew it would be a Tom Baker cameo. I took it as, the Doctor later on can change himself back to old faces? (Revisiting some favorites) And well, if he retires to the National Gallery (and gives fangirl-scientist her scarf, and comes across the Gallifrey Falls No More painting), then he can't die in battle at Trenzalore, can he?

Christmas... oh, I am not ready. ((Hugs Eleven tightly))

Comments

[greenpear.livejournal.com]

I had a fun time watching it. Upon first watching I opted to let my guard down and not look for all the spaghetti plot threads and just enjoy it. For the most part it worked.

As much as I didn't like the thought of going in and messing with the time was history [I preferred it as a mystery] it went well. Up until the whole sending a message to all incarnations in order to have the calculations worked out by the time they needed to do the magic act. That's the second time in the story they did that [the first with the screwdriver calculations] and a repeat from The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang which was really stolen from Bill and Ted.

So Moffat decided to tidy up all the messy history that was not only the classic series, but most everything that RTD laid down. He really has claimed the entire show as his own...

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

"Why are you pointing your screwdrivers like that? They're scientific instruments, not water pistols!"
That was pretty hilarious.

I realized it was Clara's prior visit to the Black Archive... that they memory wiped her for
Oh, I didn't catch that, but that would explain why there were photos of her with Kate.

I took it as, the Doctor later on can change himself back to old faces? (Revisiting some favorites) And well, if he retires to the National Gallery (and gives fangirl-scientist her scarf, and comes across the Gallifrey Falls No More painting), then he can't die in battle at Trenzalore, can he?
Oh, is that what happened? I was really confused by the whole Tom Baker thing, although I was so amused by him being there that I didn't care very much. My memory of Trenzalore is fuzzy, though, I don't really remember how that whole "The Doctor sees his own grave" got sorted last episode....

Christmas... oh, I am not ready. ((Hugs Eleven tightly))
I'm really going to miss him, too. :/ I didn't really realize how much I would until I watched the special.

[eve11]

I don't really remember how that whole "The Doctor sees his own grave" got sorted last episode....

Probably because it didn't? He jumped into his time stream, found Clara, and ran into the War Doctor, and then just turned away. I mean, Clara actually fainted and everything. And then it faded away but now comes back with the Doctor fine and Clara teaching at Coal Hill.

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

That's about what I thought, but I wasn't sure if him finding her was supposed to imply it was fixed, if it actually wasn't fixed and this was one Clara, or if they were saving the fixing for later.

[clocketpatch]

I had a feeling that this episode would probably open "six months later" with no explanation ever given for what happened on Trenzalore. Classic Moff, that. I was hoping it would all take place in Eleven's timestream (and that wouldn't been a pretty perfect set-up), but... no such luck.

I haven't re-watched yet. I was fairly tired when I saw it the first time and was watching in a big, screaming group so I know I missed things. I definitely missed the reference to Ian being the chairman at the beginning (but... if this is a thing, there should be fic with Clara and Ian&Barbara chatting at some kind of board of governors meeting and then defeating a random alien? In fact, this idea is going onto the TOO WRITE list right now).

I adored John Hurt's Doctor, which was a wonderful surprise because I was prepared to hate him, and all of it, and be a sad and bitchy fan, but Moffat has apparently done the impossible by making a happy, hope-filled, humorous (but still full of drama!) 50th special that can be appreciated by Nu and Classic fans alike. And if it didn't make much sense... well... It made more sense than the End of Time.

Which... well, I don't quite follow your reasoning for how the two episodes can co-exist, but I'm sure it's well thought out. I had the (rather depressing) thought myself that, if Ten is in his "run away" phase at the moment, and he just forgot everything, and it's heavily implied that End of Time is the next episode, then... there is the kind of awful implication that 8.5, 10, and 11 just saved Gallifrey, only for forgetful!10 to destroy it the very next day. D:


As soon as Clara said her "by the way" at the end, I knew it would be a Tom Baker cameo. I took it as, the Doctor later on can change himself back to old faces? (Revisiting some favorites) And well, if he retires to the National Gallery (and gives fangirl-scientist her scarf, and comes across the Gallifrey Falls No More painting

I haven't come across this theory yet, but I'm taking it on as head!canon. It's a lovely idea that the Doctor gets a new regeneration set some time in the future and uses it to revisit his old lives and have a peaceful, happy, goofy retirement growing old on his favourite planet, surrounded by friends.

[kaffy_r]

I'm not ready to lose him, either.

I have many thinky thoughts about the 50th, which I became pretty incoherently happy about, but I don't have the brainpower yet to really focus on it.

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

I think the sonic screwdriver software bit was to show how centuries can change an outcome (or update a software). After all, they sent out a warning (somehow) to the First Doctor, telling him of a terrible War - and when to show - and ALL of them came, with knowledge of what was to come.

Then, of course, they were all forced to forget. Only Eleven (RIGHT NOW) and Twelve know what really happened - which really helps things continuity wise. So you can still have 'I blew them up' and Time Lord Victorious and Rassilion and the Secret Council/CIA and...yeah.

Tom Baker showing MADE MY MILLINEA. OMG...I could have cried!!! So, so perfect!! I DO NOT CARE.

*CLINGS*

[eve11]

Oh, I'm not sure how clearly it comes through above, but I loved it as well. I just tend to stream my thoughts out onto the page during the third viewing or so. The minor plot nitpicks are questions that I have but they don't ever ruin the experience for me. The only major squick I have with most TV shows is old-age makeup (HATE. Last of the Time Lords was veeeery difficult for me.)

[eve11]

It makes sense that they would want the anniversary special to be a standalone. But it still threw me. I suppose we may learn later on exactly how the Doctor survived stepping in to his own time stream. Or maybe that's what triggers the regeneration at Christmas, who knows?

I never took Ten's actions in End of Time to be the destruction of Gallifrey. It was always about banishing them back to their time to face the Moment. The High Council has no effing clue what is going on with the 13 Doctor(s) trying to save Gallifrey instead of burning it, as the Doctor is down in the trenches talking to the war council who are desperately trying to defend the planet as opposed to the orchestrators who are hell bent on annihilating the Daleks. Gallifrey that Ten recalls in End of Time is Gallifrey right before the use of the Moment. It might even be before the fall of Arcadia (though not very much before). Rassilon is trying to slip Gallifrey free of the Time Lock before she is destroyed in the Moment. Hiding Gallifrey in a single moment in time "like a picture" comes after Ten sends gallifrey back into the fray of the War. The Time Lock has to do with the unchangeable nature of Gallifrey's past. The Moment puts Gallifrey at the brink of destruction but frozen, ready to experience a future, if she can be found. I think, if the Doctor does find Gallifrey in his later incarnations, he will still have to deal with the various factions, and defeat Rassilon in order to put the Time Lords back on the path to peace and non-interference instead of all-out war.

[eve11]

Well the above post was rather rambly and incomplete as well. Overall though, I am both anticipating and dreading Christmas. :(

[eve11]

Oh certainly, I think I just meant that it didn't matter in regards to the door, since the door was unlocked. But my co-worker also pointed out, it was to set up the device of working on calculations for centuries, in order to hide Gallifrey at the end.

Hope the theater viewing in 3D is just as amazing for a repeat view!

[(Anonymous)]

There's nothing, nor will there be in the future, a show like this. It will always be my favorite.

I'd just to see it without Moffat...

[greenpear.livejournal.com]

There isn't, nor will there ever be, another show like Doctor Who. It is, and will be, my favorite TV show. But the last few years have been hard due to the person in control.

My problem is that those little nitpicky items [spaghetti plot threads] bother me cause I don't like sloppy writing. and the use of the Bill & Ted [we'll tell out past selves what to do so we can solve the preset dilemma] is used too many times.

And now Moffat has claimed the right to get the show past its 12 regeneration limit. Moffat is the one who will set the tone of the show for the next how many years.

I'm just thankful I have all the Classic shows to watch when I decide to go watch Doctor Who. So where's my Talons of Weng-Chiang DVDs...

[eve11]

Well if past history is any precedent, Moffat will set the tone of the show he wants to run when he runs it, and that will be malleable enough that the next person in charge can still change what they see fit. I mean, it's either get the show past 12 regenerations or what? End it all? I'd rather there be new Who than no Who, personally.

I do understand where you're coming from, though, even if I don't share the sentiment.

[greenpear.livejournal.com]

I just can't turn a blind eye to the flaws that are so blatantly glossed over and pawned off a "brilliant" by the masses who give me reasons why as, "Who Cares" or "Don't you understand timey-whimey?" Many of the current viewers have a need for the big and spectacular but fail to be able to distinguish Dazzle from Bullshit.

Moffat's only concern is the accolades he'll get from the show, not from producing something of superior quality. I'd put up the Holmes/Hinchcliffe era against the Moffat era as proof that with the right set of production people, you can have a fabulous show. But Moffat doesn't allow that as he needs to poke himself into every single script.

Most people don't understand why I'm so upset about this this issue but mainly is comes down to my low threshold with sloppy writing, which Moffat has more than his share.

[radiolaires]

The whole backdrop of the abandoned shed in the middle of nowhere
Yes, and it looked like the inside of the upside-down structure of a boat!

The idea that he walks miles and miles away from the TARDIS because he doesn't want her to see or know what he's doing, is kind of heart-breaking.
Oh, dear, I forgot that part. Thank you for reminding me.

I also thought Hurt's old school cantankery and complaining was pretty hilarious.
A masterful bit of writing on Moffat's part, I think. He is very much like a classic Doctor. The water-pistols part was wonderful; it seemed as if Moffat had taken all the reproaches made to the New Doctors -about their silliness and trendiness- and written them into the script. Wonderful bit of self-depreciation.

Elizabeth and the Zygons... Yes, much of it was a bit silly and one of those moments when I just think the Doctor is dumb and this is embarassing. But it allowed Clara to save everyone and a very nice scene between all the Doctors and the Moment.

What Moffat really did well is plan much of the resolution in the episode, very carefully. So that no Deus ex machina descends at the end. Even some points still need to be explained about the saving of Gallifrey.

How much of the interface was the interface and how much was the Bad Wolf? Because I don't think the interface on its own could un-lock a time-locked event and let the three doctors come together?
Very interesting point. I'm not sure the Moment was immediately fully aware of the power within Bad Wolf. But since Gallifrey was never Time-Locked, she wouldn't need to unlock anything, would she? But clearly, she is the one who created the vortexes -her eyes were not glowing. The Moment is still Time Lord technology, which means timey-wimeyness and probable control over time -she could create a time-lock after all. I don't know, it could be one or another.

Apparently, The End of Time happened at the same time. Rassilon mentions the Moment being stolen and the war-chiefs we saw in TDoTD.

And oh, Tom Baker. He was magnificent.

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

The door being unlocked made me laugh hard! That was just...typical. Make it too easy for him and he flubs. Make it IMPOSSIBLE (like hiding Gallifrey) and he SHINES...

I know it will be!! It will also be my third viewing. Just gets better each time! Definitely a top fav!!

*HUGS*

[eve11]

Apparently, The End of Time happened at the same time. Rassilon mentions the Moment being stolen and the war-chiefs we saw in TDoTD.

Ah, okay. There is still room for both though. The Time Lock is a consequence of ending the war, not of the way it was ended.

The way I see it: The Time Lock from The End of Time is a lock on Gallifrey's past... it's like an impenetrable pipe in tme that starts with the first battles of the Time War and ends with the Moment. The Moment is the cap on the end of the pipe. Gallifrey busting out of the Time Lock in the End of Time is basically Rassilon breaking a hole in the side of the pipe and trying to go sideways. Secreting Gallifrey away instead of burning it in the Moment is the Doctor(s) changing the cap on the end of the pipe.

[jenlev.livejournal.com]

Oh yes….and I am so going to miss Eleven even though I love Peter Capaldi so much. Meep and eek. Interesting layers all about in this story which left me really looking forward to whatever happens next.

A BIG BIG YES TO THIS: "the triumph of intellect and romance over brute force and cynicism."

[eve11]

I just can't turn a blind eye to the flaws that are so blatantly glossed over and pawned off a "brilliant" by the masses

Which is, oddly, the same reaction I have to some of the Old School episodes I have watched as well. There is a lot of WTF-ery going on in the entirety of the show's history. I don't understand holding up the old series as a paragon of what should be done for the new.

I think it is disingenuous to suggest that a writer is not trying their best in producing something that we already know they love. There is a giant host of logistic crap that goes on with TV shows and I think the culture is even different in the UK than in the US. Are there things I wish Moffat would do differently? Sure. Is he as clever and smart as many say? Probably not. But ups and downs, likes and dislikes of the show--fan reactions one way or another--of course with something that changes so much, people are going to have different proclivities.

I know several people who are waiting out Moffat's tenure. That is fine. I don't begrudge people their opinions. I don't happen to share them; or at least the extent to which I wish things could be a bit more solidly put together has not impacted my enjoyment of the show. I realize that makes me one of the lucky ones.

[praedestinatio.livejournal.com]

Oh my, your post is so much more articulate than my "OMG FLAIL" post XD

I thought inhaler-girl's "the Doctor will save me" resolution was that she saved herself.

Basically, I agree with everything you said.
Except for the end bit because I WAS TRYING TO PRETEND CHRISTMAS WASN'T COMING.

I need to hold onto all my happy Doctor Who feelings longer!

[flowsoffire.livejournal.com]

Holy hell, I'd just typed a big comment and LJ ate it. Totally not pissed off right now. *deep breaths*

ANYWAY, BACK TO IT.

Re: the timestream: I had the exact same reaction! Well, didn't expect it to pick right up where NotD had left off, but at least references and an explanation. Apparently not. We're just left to trust that Eleven walked them right out =P Yay Doctor.

The shed and walking so far away from the TARDIS: yes! I'd forgotten about that in the whole of the episode, but it's great symbolism, very moving. Hadn't noticed so many tropes either, thanks for pointing them out! And Hurt and Piper were AMAZING. Wow.

Ten did seem very carefree—I have trouble placing him personally because we're so used to Eleven now, I feel like I'm less tuned to Ten's reactions… Worked for me though. Not much angst and Lonely God here, just Ten standing opposite Eleven and Hurt. If that makes sense, he wasn't quite the Doctor anymore, but one of the Doctors. His burden wasn't as meaningful because it didn't separate him from the others, they had lived or would live the same at different points. Hence maybe less angst; it wasn't Ten standing out, but Ten in the trinity. Idk if I'm making any sense there.

Zygons and Elizabeth: lol, that felt a bit messy to me, the resolution especially. I kind of preferred leaving it as background and not focusing too much on it, lol. Kind of lazily. Yes, the most relevance seemed to be in the peace-making—reminded me of the Silurian negociation in s5… except that once the whole thing had served its purpose in triggering Hurt's realization about his future selves, it all faded to the background. That felt… well, like there was a part missing. Gallifrey was more important, but it's still a hanging thread ;)

Gallifrey's past vs. its future: that's very interesting thinking, makes sense! :)

And nope, it seems like he can't die at Trenzalore, yet he's supposed to… So what, Capaldi will be Doctor II? ;) Or another fake death. Idk, we'll see at Christmas. Awww. *joins you in hugging Eleven*

♥